Well, you finally get to talk about it- does God lie? Use specific references to prove your case. Have at it!
This will be due by Friday, September 26.
OT is the best T
Studies in the Old Testament
Studies in the Old Testament
Well, you finally get to talk about it- does God lie? Use specific references to prove your case. Have at it!
This will be due by Friday, September 26.
47 comments
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September 23, 2008 at 7:34 pm
Kyle Hardin
In my opinion, all lying is sin. Since all lies are sin and God cannot sin, God cannot lie. Proverbs 19:9 says “A false witness will not go unpunished. And he who tells lies will perish.” As we all know, the Bible is 100% true and no exceptions are made. According to the verse, it says he who tells lies will perish. God has not perished, so has he lied? I think not. Our God is sinless just like his son. Therefore, he cannot lie. I don’t care if Mr. Eggleston finds little tidbits of the Bible thats implies God lied. I believe God never has and never will lie. Another verse reinforcing my statement is Zechariah 8:17 which states “Also let none of you devise evil in your heart against another, and do not love perjury; for all these are what I hate, declares the Lord.” “Lying is an abomination to him”. Why would God willingly so something he hates?
September 24, 2008 at 9:33 am
Kat Falvey
Some things that we read in the Bible we question and say is He really going to do that? In the Bible with the story like how Jesus said he was going to die and rise again in 3 days. He fulfilled what He said. If He has fulfilled everything He has said why would He start to lie now? Anyways lying is a sin and God does not sin. He is perfect remember? So He cant sin. I know we all doubt Him sometimes and its hard but I know that He is always going to be there and fulfill his promises.
September 24, 2008 at 9:36 am
Kat Falvey
@Kyle
I totally agree you couldnt have said it any better. I said the same thing, lying is a sin and God does not sin. I like when you say that “Lying is an abomination to him” So why would God do something He hates? Great way to say it and its so true! And God has nottt parished, you are right! I just really like the way you put things.
September 24, 2008 at 10:01 am
Jonathan Solwick
I don’t think that God ever lies. Proverbs 6:16-17 says, “that there are six things which the Lord hates, yes, seven which are an abomination to Him:
haughty eyes, a lying tongue,…” That seems pretty clear to me that God doesn’t lie since it says that He hates lying. I think that there are some instances where it is ok to lie in order to save someones life. For example when the Hebrew midwives tell the pharoah that they can’t kill the Hebrew baby boys when they are born because the Hebrew women give birth too quickly. I don’t think God needs to lie though. Since he created everything, he doesn’t need to lie in order to save a life. He also doesn’t lie when he says I will kill you because of your wickedness, but then doesn’t because the person repented to God. Even though God knew the person was going to repent and He would not kill him, God said he would because He would have killed the person if he hadn’t repented. God was giving the person a choice to repent and live, or not repent and die.
September 24, 2008 at 10:07 am
Jonathan Solwick
@Kat
I agree with you. Since the Bible says that lying is a sin, and God cant sin, then God obviously doesn’t lie. Also since God had fullfilled all of his hundreds of promises before, including all the prophecies about Jesus, why would he start lying now.
September 24, 2008 at 11:02 am
Adam Tindel
I do not think God ever lies. God never sins and if lying is considered a sin then he obviously does not lie. Proverbs 12:22 says “Lying lips are an abomination to the Lord: but they that deal truly are his delight.” Another example is Psalms 119:163: “I hate and abhor lying: but thy law do I love.” So if lying is an abomination to the Lord, and he hates it, then why would He lie? Those 2 verses are great examples on how we know that God does not lie. God always follows through on everything He says, no matter how ridicolous it sounds to us.
September 24, 2008 at 11:07 am
Adam Tindel
@ Kyle
You are right, God has never and will never perish. And that verse clearly states that all lyers will perish. So if God has not perished then he clearly has not lied.
oh and i like how you included Mr. Eggleston and his theory haha. i almost did that too.
September 24, 2008 at 11:22 am
Taylor K Williams
I believe that God does not lie. Like Kat said lying is a sin and the Ten Commandment say “do not bear false witness,” which mean do not lie. God created the Ten Commandment and he would not break his own laws. God can do whatever he wants so if he wanted to lie he could but because he is holy he does not want to lie.
@ Kyle
i agree lyong is a sin and God cannot sin he is totally perfect.
September 24, 2008 at 11:27 am
Matthew Richardson
I think it is difficult to talk about the Bible without actually knowing Hebrew and being able to read from a Bible written Hebrew. As in Latin, some words can have multiple meanings in English, and words in other languages also have connotations that we may not be aware of. Therefore I believe that the best way to find out whether or not GOD lies is to look up the Hebrew word used every time the word “lie” or a word related to it is used the Hebrew word that that word is translated from should be looked up and checked to see if the word “lie” is always the same word.
That said, I believe that it is possible that GOD can lie. Mr. Eggleston has pointed out that GOD told Hezekiah (I think that’s who it was) that he would die before the prophet left his house, but he did not die. Mr. Eggleston also pointed out that there is a difference between “false witness”, referred to in the Ten Commandments, and “lying.” Even so, GOD lying doesn’t seem compatible with everything else in the Bible. I think that our definition of the word “lie” is not what GOD does. There must be some other definition that fits with what GOD told Hezekiah.
September 24, 2008 at 11:32 am
Kaitlyn O'Brien
I definitely think that God NEVER lies. In the Bible it says that there will not be any sin in Heaven so since lying is a sin and God lives in Heaven, He never lies. Also Proverbs 12:22 says, “The Lord detests lying lips, but he delights in men who are truthful.” Since God says that He doesn’t like lying lips why would He lie? That would mean that God is a hypocrite and I don’t know about you but I do not think that God is a hypocrite.
September 24, 2008 at 11:40 am
Kaitlyn O'Brien
@Taylor
I agree with Taylor. If God created the Ten Commandments then why would He break His own laws that He made? Then some people might think that if God can’t follow His own rules then why should we? Which means that some people might fall away from God. But thankfully God doesn’t lie so that won’t ever happen.
September 24, 2008 at 11:51 am
Matthew Richardson
@Kaitlyn
The Ten Commandments forbid “false witness (or testimony) against thy neighbor”, not lying. “Against thy neighbor” means that it is forbidden to lie about a person. That means that lies that are not detrimental to anyone are allowed. It is extremely difficult for us puny humans to differentiate between harmful and unharmful lies, so it is probably best to avoid any lying at all. Even so, many people tell lies to be polite. If someone asks you what you think of a piece of art that they created and looks like a bunch of squiggly lines, you wouldn’t tell then that it looks like a bunch of squiggly lines, would you?
September 24, 2008 at 2:13 pm
Art Sloan
Exodus 1:15-20: God rewards the Hebrew midwives for lying to pharaoh
1 Kings 22:20-23: God Condones one of his servants acting as a lying spirit in enemy prophets.
1 Samuel 16:1&2: God tell Samuel to deceive Saul so he can anoint David.
Isaiah 38:2-5: God tells Hezekiah he will die but when he prays got tells him he will ad 15 years to his life.
Genesis 22:1&2: God says Abraham will have to sacrifice his son, but he ends up only taking a ram.
Matthew 13:10-17:Jesus says he is trying to be misunderstood.
When god tests some one, he is lying, because he knows what will happen, he knew that Hezekiah would cry out to him, and that he would live for 15 more years, but he still told him he would die, its not as if he suddenly changed his mind, same with Abraham and Isaac.
Not only that, but he also condones lying by his servants, and even rewards them for it.
September 24, 2008 at 3:20 pm
Kyle Brandon
According to 1 John 1:5 “God is light and in Him there is no Darkness at all”. If that is true, and it is because the bible is true, then God cannot lie. The only way for God to lie is for man “make” him lie by saying that we have not sinned. 1 John 1:10 says, “If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar and his word is not in us”.
September 24, 2008 at 3:21 pm
Susan Bowerman =)
I presonally dont think that God lies. Like are Art said God blessed the midwives when they told pharaoh that they couldnt get to the women fast enough. But I think God was testing Abraham when he was sappose to sacrife Issac but in Genesis 22:1 it says ” some time later God TESTED Abraham.” it doesnt say got lied to Abraham it says that he Tested him.
@ Taylor =)
I think that you are totally correct why would God say in the 10 commandments dont bear faulse witness. God would not do that be he would be countradicting himself.
September 24, 2008 at 3:34 pm
Art Sloan
@ Susan
When God tests someone, he is in essence, lying to them, when God tested Abraham, he knew that Isaac would be spared, but Abraham would have sacrificed him, he still told Abraham that he had to sacrifice his son. now, I’m not saying lying is good, but when its not for selfish it can be.
September 24, 2008 at 3:35 pm
Kyle Brandon
@Kyle Hardin
I agree that since lying is sin and since God can’t sin, God can’t lie. I agree that the Bible is 100% true and that lying is an abomination. I’ve never heard Mr. Eggleston’s comments on God lying in the Bible so i can’t comment on that.
September 24, 2008 at 3:41 pm
alec lantagne
God definatly doesnt lie, because if God did lie how would he atract so many followers and get so many people to put there trust in him. I mean no one likes a liar and no one puts there faith in someone whos been caught leing. There oviously was something speacial about God. He really must of been sinless. In the bible there is also mant prophesies made by him and every last one of them happened exactly how he said it would. He said he was going to die on the cross, shed his blood, so we could be forgiven and not go to hell, and he did and we were forgiven, and at that moment many people there that hated God relized it, relized he was sinless. I mean mean anyone who says he’s gonna die for the world and does well that speaks for itself. If u dont lie about that then you wouldnt lie about anything else.
September 24, 2008 at 4:22 pm
Matthew Richardson
Most of your arguments are that all lying is sin. I think that still needs to be proved.
September 24, 2008 at 4:30 pm
Katrina Faith Nolette
In Numbers 23:19 the Bible says, “God is not a man, that he should lie;” And as it has been stated The Bible is truth, there for he can’t lie.
It also says that “I am the Way, The TRUTH, and the Life” John 14:6.
How can someone be the truth and truth not come out of them? Its not possible.
“Proverbs 6:16-19 There are six things the LORD HATES, seven that are DETESTABLE to him: haughty eyes, a lying tongue”
And I don’t know about you but I can’t do something that I hate, and God is God….he wouldn’t lie.
And on top of that God is a BEAST so he wouldn’t lie.
And When certain teachers say that people in the bible lie and God doesn’t do anything about it therefor he “blesses” their lies, they’re wrong, keep reading, God with deals with those who mess with him.Whether the punishment goes to them or to their family they always get punished.
It may not be how we think it should be but hey thats God for you. And plus He is God and He knows better then us.
September 24, 2008 at 4:50 pm
Katrina Faith Nolette
@ Art
“When god tests some one, he is lying, because he knows what will happen,”
Not true.
Show me a scripture that says “God lies” Or that “God blesses lies”
We are human you can’t put him in our box, he is more infinite and extraordinary then u will ever be able to fathom.
Really Show me, I have verses above that say God hates lies and doesn’t lie and I believe that, show me a verse that says otherwise.
@ Matthew
The bible is the bible, their is no “proving” to it.
I’d like to see ur argument.
September 24, 2008 at 4:55 pm
Art Sloan
@Katrina
Read my post, i have examples there
and as for proof, Matt was referring to people not putting proof in their posts.
September 24, 2008 at 5:00 pm
Katrina Faith Nolette
@ Susan and Art
There are times when people in the bible when people lie so they don’t have to sin, but did God tell them to lie? No, did he say it was good for them to lie? No. God didn’t come and say “Good job on that lie”, No. and did he come and give them money and position, No.
September 24, 2008 at 5:02 pm
Katrina Faith Nolette
@Art
No I mean specific scripture[s] that SAYS God Lies like I have verses that SAY God doesn’t.
September 24, 2008 at 5:24 pm
Art Sloan
@God rewarded the midwives for lying, with sons of their own.
September 24, 2008 at 5:24 pm
Art Sloan
That’s supposed to be @Katrina by the way
September 24, 2008 at 5:33 pm
Liz Laughridge
My first response for God lying was of course not! How could that possibly happen. But I think Matt brings up a really good point, of how things can change, from culture to text to language. For all we know, lying could be and mean a completely different thing in the age of when Jesus was around.( a little exaggeration ) But it’s a good point to notice. Also, I know when I send an email, or note to someone, what the person reads can be totally twisted around from different perspectives. The verses that you guys have that says God did lie, could mean something different. You have to look at so many other things to truly have a deep understanding of the text. I do not think that God can lie, because that would be misleading someone to something that is not truth, which is sin. Like Alec said, who would want to have a leader who lies to his followers!
@ Matt
When someone lies, they are misleading them to something that is not truth or right, which would be sin. One of the definitions in the dictionary is untruthfulness. If untruthfulness wasn’t sin, then our whole world would be a total disaster.
September 24, 2008 at 5:46 pm
Art Sloan
@matt
Why are you even posting on this blog, your not in this bible class?
September 24, 2008 at 6:26 pm
Matthew Richardson
@Art
Because.
September 24, 2008 at 6:26 pm
Matthew Richardson
Why not?
September 24, 2008 at 8:24 pm
Art Sloan
@Matt
well, mainly, your not in this class…
September 24, 2008 at 8:55 pm
Katrina Faith Nolette
@Art
Does the bible SPECIFICALLY say “God rewarded them for lying”?
September 24, 2008 at 8:56 pm
Katrina Faith Nolette
@ Matt….
Honestly u shouldn’t be on here….your in another class.
September 24, 2008 at 10:19 pm
Tarik Haskell
God most certainly,emphatically does NOT lie. It is impossible for him to lie. Hebrews 6:18 says “God did this so that, by two unchangable things in which it is impossible for God to lie, we who have fled to take hold of the hope offered to us may be greatly encouraged.” So God cannot lie which in turns encourages us to tell the truth. Numbers 23:19 says “God is not a man, that he should lie, nor a son of man, that he should change his mind.” Men brought sin into the world,and no matter how much you sugercoat it lying is a sin. Saying that God can sin is one of the most ridiculous things ive ever heard!
September 25, 2008 at 10:21 am
Matthew Richardson
@Katrina
Do I have to be in your Bible class to post here?
September 25, 2008 at 5:36 pm
Katrina Faith Nolette
@Matt
Um yeah its a “CLASS” blog…this is our homework…not urs. XP
September 25, 2008 at 6:47 pm
Anna Gosnell
I definitley think God does not lie. I think that God will test our faith, but that is not lying. God commanded us in the ten commandments to not lie. Why would He lie when He cleary commands us not to? The Bible makes it clear that lying is a sin, and God cannot sin.
September 25, 2008 at 6:50 pm
gigglegirl099
@Katrina
I totally agree. God has told us many times that he hates lies. Also, the Bible says that Satan is the god of lies. I’m pretty sure God is not Satan.
September 25, 2008 at 8:40 pm
Carly Johnson
wow, this is a tough one. but my belief is God does not lie. i aggree with taylor in saying that the ten commandments says not to lie, and God is perfect so i believe he wouldn’t lie. if God does lie, we have a serious problem, why would we follow God if there is any possibiblity that he would lie? if God lies then, what if everything in the bible is a sham. but i believe God doesn’t lie which confirms my knowledge that the bible is real. so thats where i stand.
@ everyone
okay. so as i was reading these posts i want to thank all of you for making me think. the posts you wrote stretched me and made me think about what i believe, THANK YOU!
September 25, 2008 at 9:32 pm
Abby Black
@Art
Ok about the midwives thing…i was talking to my youth pastor about this because it really seemed to me that God as you say “blesses lies.” I really liked the way that he explained it to me. Exodus was written BY moses. He didn’t explain and expound on every little single detail. God blesses them for saving the isralites NOT for lying. I am sure God wopuld have wqanted them to stand up to pharoh but they wre probally afraid. God didn’t bless the LIE, he blessed them for SAVING the babies.
AND for the whole Abraham thing…there is a difference in testing and lieing…Athority can test and it is for your own self benift anyone can lie and it is clearly stated in the Bible that lying is Wrong the people says that God “hates a lying tonge”
September 25, 2008 at 9:54 pm
Abby Black
Revolation 21:8- “But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and ALL liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.”
GOD IS NOT GOING TO GO INTO THE LAKE OD FIRE, therefore God doesn’t lie.
I really don’t think God lies. My opinion is that honetly WE DON”T REALLY KNOW as you can see Matt and many others makje a valid point both ways. I really think that there is not specific enough information to know for sure either way. We are never gonna know till we get to heaven and even then we still my not know. So i don’t reallyknow but i don’t believe that he does.
September 26, 2008 at 11:02 am
Jason Mills
I have to say no, God does not lie. Lie can be defined as “a false statement made with deliberate intent to deceive” God never tells us something to make us believe the total opposite of what will happen. Sometimes e does tell us what is going to happen and we think that means something different altogether, but that is our fault not his. One of the Ten Commandments says ” You shall not give false testimony against your neighbor.” Saying you shall not lie in an attempt to deceive. In Genesis chapter 22, were God tests Abraham, people say that God lied to Abraham, telling him to kill Issac they telling to stop. I say that God did not lie, for he cannot go against his own law, and also if you think about it, God told Abraham to “sacrifice” Isaac. Sacrifice is defined as “the offering of animal, plant, or human life or of some material possession to a deity, as in propitiation or homage.” It doesn’t say that there has to be a death. I think that Abraham did sacrifice Isaac, giving him to God. Once Isaac was strapped down on the table he was God’s and that was what God was looking for, for Abraham to give Him his son. IN this situation God doesn’t lie but he doesn’t tell us his whole plan, or nose that we will interpret it wrong which again is our fault not his.
September 26, 2008 at 11:20 am
Jason Mills
@ Abby
That is probably the smartest answer to give. Yes I agree that it would seem that God doesn’t lie but how can we fully tell?
“Oh, the depth of the riches of the wisdom and the knowledge of God! How unsearchable his judgments, and his path beyond tracing out! Who has known the mind of the Lord? Or who has been his counselor? Who has ever given to God, that God should repay him? For from him through him and to him are all things. To him be the glory forever! Amen”
Romans 11: 33-36
September 27, 2008 at 9:42 pm
Katrina Faith Nolette
@Jason
I really love what you said about a sacrifice. Its true to do what God wants I have to sacrifice my time….but I don’t “kill” time, its not possible but you get what I mean.
@Abby
I think that it really cool that you did pull the “Holier-then-thou” routine that some Christians pull, but that you went to your pastor and asked because you didn’t know, I have new found respect for you, like a very high level.(not meaning to say that I didn’t respect you before ^_^)
September 29, 2008 at 9:17 am
Kyle Hardin
I wonder if this went further than it should have. Anyway
@Jason
Your right. God does not tell us a lie just so he can tell us the truth later on. That is not like God at all. Why would he defy his own commandments? “Thou shalt not give false testimony” Is clearly one of the ten commandments.
September 29, 2008 at 10:44 am
Tarik Haskell
@ Art Sloan
When God test someone he is not lying to them. Just because he knows what is happening does not mean he is lying. God is all-knowing he tests to see how we react. The comment “in essence he is lying” is poorly stated.
September 29, 2008 at 5:23 pm
Mr. Willson
Good comments, it’s good to wrestle. And as long as people remain civil, anyone can post on this blog. But I do have the power to ban…
And here’s some other thoughts regarding Matt’s original post:
I think it is difficult to talk about the Bible without actually knowing Hebrew and being able to read from a Bible written Hebrew…
Sometimes this can be the case, but it really is not that difficult to talk about the Bible apart from knowing the original languages. And if you do get to learn the original languages, it is surprising how well some translations are done. We can definitely have confidence, especially in the main English translations
GOD told Hezekiah (I think that’s who it was) that he would die before the prophet left his house, but he did not die.
Does prophecy equal telling the future? What about Jonah?